1/8 Porsche 908/03 - Page 11 (2025)

lovegt40

11-07-2011, 05:52 PM

Pugnuts

11-07-2011, 08:06 PM

I've been watching this WIP in silence. Haven't posted any comments. There is nothing to say... maybe.... breathtaking?

Don

LeeABC

11-08-2011, 03:51 AM

Looking fantastic. I would love to see this in the flesh, I'm sure it is the only way to really appreciate your workmanship.
Looking forward to seeing it painted.

Cheers,
Lee.

keefr22

11-08-2011, 04:58 AM

Looking fantastic. I would love to see this in the flesh, I'm sure it is the only way to really appreciate your workmanship.
Looking forward to seeing it painted.

Cheers,
Lee.

That's very true, I'd really love to see it as well. What do you do with your models when they're finished SB, do you display them at model shows or somesuch, or do they just sit on a shelf in the house??

Keef

ScratchBuilt

11-08-2011, 08:51 AM

What do I do with my models when they're finished? Well...the two FF2000's are in a bookcase in my room, the FF1600 is in a glass case, and the 917 and 917-10 are sitting on a shelf being dust-magnets. I'll have to have a shake-up when the 908's finished - one of the FF2000's might just find itself sitting on the shelf to make room! I've never entered a modelling competiton or displayed anything at a show - the guys at work see what I've done, I take each model to one of our races so my friends there can see them, and you guys see them here on AF.

Back to the project. With the panels primered, I could re-fit the bodywork and start marking out the areas I wanted to mask before spraying the blue:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803607.jpg

At this point it was tempting to think 'I could keep spraying it white and finish it as the #22 Nurbrgring car', but I knew this wouldn't be received too well (and I've already paid for the blue, orange and green paint!). So, I started with the two large arrows running down each side and taped the template in position - the rear NACA ducts and the bonnet louvres pretty much determine where each arrow has to fit. A quick outline with pencil, and I now had the position fixed:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803608.jpg

I repeated this process for each of the main colour blocks on the car - roundels, oil cooler opening, the green areas on the left-hand flank and across the tail, and the small diamond marking on the front right-hand nose. I'll mark and paint the doors only when I have fixed the main panels and checked the final trimming. In all it took about four hours to make all the templates and mark all the positions.

This might not necessarily be the way everyone else would do it, but I figured it would be better to spray the orange and green over white primer, than over the blue. I can re-use the templates later on to add the thin black outline around each of the shapes (and hopefully camouflage the painted edges).

This morning's work has been to mask-off all the outlined areas, which has required some careful trimming and snipping:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803609.jpg

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803610.jpg

It's strange, but it just looks so different now it has some markings on it! I've become used to either the plain fibreglass panels, or the primer, but even with just the masking tape it's starting to come alive. Perhaps it's just the effect of knowing that after three years work it's nearly there...

The fun part will be re-masking all these areas again once the rest of the bodywork has been sprayed blue - but I'm hoping the results be worth all the effort. All I need now is a bit of decent weather so I can get outside and spray...and that will determine the timing of the next post!

See you soon,

SB

scapin

11-08-2011, 02:26 PM

LeeABC

11-09-2011, 02:30 AM

Well, I can't compete with that it's just wonderful; I think I'll give up modelling and take up knitting or something and for pities sake, please put your models in a dust free environment when they're finished. I can't bear the thought of them deteriorating with dust damage.

Good luck with the paint, I'm off out to by a knitting pattern!

Cheers,
Lee.

andy-i

11-09-2011, 08:20 AM

Are you doing the no12 1970 Targa-Florio winner?

Will you print your own decals?

Mtec in Germany have a 1/8th 908/3 kit. I know its a slightly different livery but it might be useful if they will sell you some decals.
http://www.modellautotechnik.de/xtcommerce/product_info.php?info=p4_Porsche-908-3-Targa-Florio-1970-Kit.html

I not 100% sure but I think they did more than 1 variant of the 908/3 in the past as well. Maybe some other posters might know.

ScratchBuilt

11-09-2011, 01:06 PM

Hello again...

Some answers for you guys:

Scapin: Yes, the steering column is supposed to be at an angle - fortunately it was one of the details included on the layout drawing used at the start of the project. The steering wheel isn't fixed yet, so I'll make sure it is lined up correctly before gluing! There's always a practical limit as how to how far you can offset the pinion and not have the teeth sticking out the end of the rack on full lock. Even on our FFords the column is often slightly offset to give more foot-room around the pedals.

Lee: don't worry, the 908 will definitely be going behind glass! The two 917's are on a shelf, but fortunately for them it's not in my room where I do all the work!

Andy-i: Yes, it's the 1970 Targa winner, and I'm planning to do my own decals. This is something I've not done before, so it will be a final challenge right at the end! I've got a couple of Fujimi 917's which will provide some of them and a separate sheet of Gulf logos - that should cover everything apart from the Union Flags on the side. I'm going to the Snetterton model shop tomorrow, so will see if I can find anything suitable there! I'll have to do some practice prints, etc, first and see how it goes.

More soon...

SB

rx7king

11-09-2011, 08:56 PM

andy-i

11-10-2011, 09:03 AM

Hello again...

Some answers for you guys:

Scapin: Yes, the steering column is supposed to be at an angle - fortunately it was one of the details included on the layout drawing used at the start of the project. The steering wheel isn't fixed yet, so I'll make sure it is lined up correctly before gluing! There's always a practical limit as how to how far you can offset the pinion and not have the teeth sticking out the end of the rack on full lock. Even on our FFords the column is often slightly offset to give more foot-room around the pedals.

Lee: don't worry, the 908 will definitely be going behind glass! The two 917's are on a shelf, but fortunately for them it's not in my room where I do all the work!

Andy-i: Yes, it's the 1970 Targa winner, and I'm planning to do my own decals. This is something I've not done before, so it will be a final challenge right at the end! I've got a couple of Fujimi 917's which will provide some of them and a separate sheet of Gulf logos - that should cover everything apart from the Union Flags on the side. I'm going to the Snetterton model shop tomorrow, so will see if I can find anything suitable there! I'll have to do some practice prints, etc, first and see how it goes.

More soon...

SB

Good luck with that. Ive only ever printed pretty basic decals but your skills are out this world so i'm sure you'll manage it.

You can find a layout here for ref:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/pattosplace/home.html
Just click on P and scroll down.

Getting the right font for the no 12 and the porsche logos down the sills look like the biggest challenge.

Baxter!

11-13-2011, 09:23 AM

ScratchBuilt

11-13-2011, 02:22 PM

Hello again,

After getting everything masked earlier in the week, I was able to get two coats of blue sprayed on Thursday morning. It went on surprisingly well - it sprayed much better than the white primer which would only give me five or six squirts before spitting! I left it for a couple of days, then yesterday afternoon I gave it all a rub over with a super-extra-fine sanding stick - then a final third coat. Here's the end result:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803611.jpg

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803612.jpg

The question was how well the Scotch masking tape was going to work, or whether I was going to get any leakage - only one way to find out:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803613.jpg

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803614.jpg

There's a couple of very small patches on the tail which will need to be sorted before further painting, but the edges between the blue and white are fine. Before I mask the orange areas tomorrow I'll give the edges another quick rub-over to remove the small ridge where the blue has built-up against the tape. If I can get the orange sprayed tomorrow, I'll aim to get the green areas sprayed on Wednesday, then finish off with the white roundels on Friday. This time next week it should all look very different!

Hi Baxter - I'll take your post as a compliment! I'm sure I've posted one or two small rants elsewhere about valuing these models, but it's an argument worth repeating. I don't really know what value you would put on it; from a numbers point of view you could say three years work, maybe 1500 hours during that time, plus materials. What does an hour of my time 'cost' if I'm modelling as a hobby? If someone asked me to make a similar model as a commission it would still take a similar amount of time - so in those conditions would it be £ 5 per hour? £ 10? £ 20? I had another look at the 908s on the modellautotechnik website - 1190 Euros in kit form or 1990 Euros fully built (or about £ 1000 - £ 1600). Now, the quality of the finished product appears to be as good as you would expect for the money, but I would raise a question about the detail. The photos showing the gearbox and rear suspension in particular leave a little to be desired, in my opinion. Okay - the bodywork on mine will probably not look as good, and there might have been some raised eyebrows around here on some of my methods(!) but that's just the way I build for my own enjoyment. Could I justify asking a similar price for mine, or given how long it has taken would I be selling myself short? If anyone knows a weathy Porsche collector and 908-03 owner who wants a unique piece of work, please get in contact...!

...and I don't even want to think about explaining what it might be 'worth' to an insurance company...

"So it's a plastic model, then."
"Yes, but also fibreglass, wire, acrylic, etc...all sorts of things."
"But it's a kit like you would buy in a shop?"
"...well, no - I built it myself."
"Like a kit from a shop?"
"...no, it's built from scratch!"
"How long did it take, then?"
"Oh, about 1500 hours over three years."
"So what do you think it's worth?"
"I was hoping you could tell me!"

See, I could have been a scriptwriter too...

Have a good week, everyone, and look out for another mini-update in a few days.

SB

HuskerF1

11-13-2011, 04:40 PM

icon_modeler

11-13-2011, 05:16 PM

Hello again,

...and I don't even want to think about explaining what it might be 'worth' to an insurance company...

"So it's a plastic model, then."
"Yes, but also fibreglass, wire, acrylic, etc...all sorts of things."
"But it's a kit like you would buy in a shop?"
"...well, no - I built it myself."
"Like a kit from a shop?"
"...no, it's built from scratch!"
"How long did it take, then?"
"Oh, about 1500 hours over three years."
"So what do you think it's worth?"
"I was hoping you could tell me!"

See, I could have been a scriptwriter too...

Have a good week, everyone, and look out for another mini-update in a few days.

SB

As far as a insurance company would be concerned, something like this would be considered "art" and the premiem would reflect it as such. There would be no way other then to compare the worth to something of similar scale and proportion with regard to the scoop of the project since you have never sold anything before that you could use as a gauge to establish the worth.

Nice job so far SB, very nice job. I would have liked to see a little darker shade of blue but I understand you wanting to stick with something from the can. Maybe next time we could get you to step out of the box when it comes to the body paint as you have done with so many other areas of this build as compared to your previous efforts.

:):):)

subbie27x

11-13-2011, 09:54 PM

IMHO this car is like a museum piece, a one-off, a unique piece of work. It would probably take a consummate, professional modeler (like a Gerald Wingrove or someone of equal talent) to put a fair value on it.

I've seen quite a few builders who make considerable money building commissions and their work pales in comparison to this 908.

unipart

11-13-2011, 11:55 PM

Hi to all.

Scratchbuilt, I have admired your Porsche 908 (and your other models) for a while. Keep your models and enjoy us with the next scratchbuilding project. Any idea?

unipart

ScratchBuilt

11-14-2011, 03:28 PM

Hi Icon - I hear what you say about the blue, which is why I was doing my best to find a good reference. Trouble is, the only numbers I could get mixed were either from the RAL range or the BS numbers. I checked all sorts of colour charts and online samples, but there was always a nagging doubt about how the actual paint would match the sample. I thought it would be better to spray over a white primer undercoat rather than grey, to avoid a dull finish.

Considering the quality of the paintwork on the 917-10, doing the 908 in Gulf colours was always going to be something of a learning curve for me - I just don't go through the process of paint-prepping, priming, flatting, masking, spraying, etc, on a regular basis! As with any skill, regular repetition helps.

If everything goes to plan, the next project will certainly involve a little more 'stepping out of the box'. In between spraying the 908 I'm spending some of my holiday time pulling together some drawings, and getting a better understanding of the subject. If I can convince myself it is buildable, expect to see a new WIP thread on here before the end of the year! What is it? Well...for starters, it was clocked at 227.5mph on the Mulsanne...

SB

jaykay640

11-14-2011, 03:34 PM

...for starters, it was clocked at 227.5mph on the Mulsanne...

Well, you won't have to argue about the body colour of that one. Maybe about the stripes and wheel covers :-)
As always it's great to follow your work!

ianc911

11-14-2011, 03:55 PM

I also was expecting a little darker blue, but photos like this taken indoors can be misleading. I also think that once the orange is sprayed, the blue will look much 'bluer' in contrast.

Got to leave it to SB though; I'm sure he knows best,

ianc

ScratchBuilt

11-19-2011, 11:40 AM

Hello everyone,

Firstly, I can guarantee that Ianc's last line is not always totally correct...(but thanks for the compliment, all the same!)

So, picking up where I left off on Sunday...before re-masking to spray the orange I applied a small amount of filler to repair the two small patches on the tail section. I didn't re-primer the area under the 'arrow' as the orange spray covered really well - just a bit of rubbing down with the sanding stick. I re-masked the tail, bulkhead panels and nose and sprayed them all together. Here's the nose:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803615.jpg

...and with the masking removed:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803616.jpg

Typical - the last bit of masking tape to be removed from the tail brought a small section of filler with it, right on the edge:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803617.jpg

It's annoying, but it can be fixed. If this is the worst that happens between now and the end of the project, that's fine by me. So far I've been quite surprised at how well the spray paints have behaved (the RAL sprays, especially).

A couple of days after the orange, I added the green:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803618.jpg

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803619.jpg

The mesh grille hasn't been glued in place yet - it just looks better in the photo like this!

I had given the two inlet trumpet covers a coat of orange a week or two ago, but wasn't happy with the result - it seemed slightly 'chalky'. As a possible solution, I've given them both a quick coat of Tamiya TS-31 Bright Orange - I'll see how it compares in better light tomorrow, or whether I'll need to give them another coat of the RAL orange to finish them off. Obviously they should really be the same shade as the arrows on the main bodywork. Here you can see the difference between the original RAL finish in the foreground, and the TS-31 in the background:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803620.jpg

After the green, the last areas to be sprayed were the number roundels on the sides, tail and nose. So, more re-masking and this time I went for a final finish with Tamiya TS-26 Pure White. Hmm...interesting how different sprays behave with masking tape, isn't it? I didn't get a single spot of paint seeping under the masking tape with the RAL sprays, but the Tamiya paint just wanted to get under there! Fortunately I was able to remove most of the problem with the fine sanding stick, but the roundel on the nose forced me to re-mask the white and re-spray a small area of blue. Note for next time: use better masking tape with Tamiya sprays...

At this point I was ready to start thinking about adding the black line around the arrows, etc (I know: some say black, other sources say very dark blue). My original plan to use a fine draughting pen to do the job went out the window - I couldn't convince myself it wasn't going to smudge! Another note for next time: make an extra piece of dummy bodywork and spray it the same as the rest, so it can be used as a test-piece...

My Plan B for the black-lining required the use of my paintbrush and large amounts of masking tape. I'd bought some Tristar 3mm tape some time ago, but not had a use for it until now. A couple of tests suggested I could achieve the required result, so I set-to with the bulkhead panels:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803621.jpg

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803622.jpg

I was happy that this method would be okay, so started on the arrows on the nose:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803623.jpg

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803624.jpg

I'm really pleased with these - the orange stands out, and the blue looks better too. I'll continue black-lining the other colours during the next few days.

Unfortunately, I'll have to get some more (better) masking tape before tackling the roundels, as this shot of the nose shows:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803625.jpg

I used the 3mm for the central section - and it worked fine; but I used regular masking tape for the curved areas and got more soak-under. Grrr! Again, I'm sure it can be sorted out given time and patience, but it's going to stop me continuing with the black-lining around the roundels.

However, at the end of this fortnight's holiday I'm very pleased with the progress I've been able to make - both on the 908 and 'the next project'. There's still a few niggles to sort out - the black-lining and the filler damge - but between working on these areas I can continue with preparation for the decals, etc, and sourcing some spray varnish. My plan to have it completed by the end of the year is still in good shape, I think...

All the best!

SB

John18d

11-19-2011, 12:25 PM

ScratchBuilt

11-19-2011, 01:46 PM

Hi John - no problem: I'll certainly investigate availability of the 3M tape over here, as an alternative to what I have now. I know one or two of my local model shops usually stock the Tamiya masking tapes, but I'll look a little deeper. The regular Scotch masking tape I've been using is certainly better than a couple of other non-branded rolls I've got - but I'm only using them for non-critical tasks.

I've also got a whole pile of draughting film here which I've been using to make templates for covering the larger areas, then using tape to seal the edges - I didn't want any rogue overspray to sneak in from behind. The Tristar tape has been good for the straight edges on the arrows, but it will only curve so far - so it won't work easily with the roundels. Bearing in mind this is the first time I've tried a paint-job this ambitious (relatively-speaking), I'm still pleased with the results - so far!

One lesson I still carry with me from my time at Uni is the idea that personal experience and ability will work well to a point, but there will always be something that someone else will know more about than you! The trick is to know when to call on other's skills, and not to worry about asking for help.

I'll let you know how I get on!

SB

keefr22

11-19-2011, 02:07 PM

Hi John - no problem: I'll certainly investigate availability of the 3M tape over here,

Evening SB, if you can't find it anywhere else, there's always e-bay!

3mm: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-471-BLUE-FINE-LINE-MASKING-TAPE-3mm-x-33m-/380385477388?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item5890bdc30c

6mm: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-471-BLUE-FINE-LINE-MASKING-TAPE-6mm-x-33m-/380385475483?pt=UK_Body_Shop_Supplies_Paint&hash=item5890bdbb9b

HTH

Keef

John18d

11-19-2011, 02:25 PM

cinqster

11-19-2011, 06:45 PM

SB,

Bil Attridge used the 1/8th Scotch 3M plastic automotive tape for masking the red/white on his momentous MP4/6 build. Check out his pics if you've not seen them:

http://members.shaw.ca/bil_attridge/Gallery/Formula_One/MP4_6/In_Progress/pages/Cowl_In_Progress_jpg.htm

Porsnatic

11-20-2011, 07:36 AM

ianc911

11-22-2011, 11:40 AM

Argghhh! The paintwork. My least favorite part...

ianc

ScratchBuilt

11-22-2011, 01:54 PM

Tuesday night update:

Following everyone's suggestions that the 3m tape was the way to go, I did some digging online on Sunday afternoon and found www.everythingairbrush.com (http://www.everythingairbrush.com), here in the UK. Keef - I believe these were the guys you linked to on e-bay; I try to avoid spending too much time looking on there - it would be bad news for my bank balance, for a start, as I would end up buying all sorts of things I never knew I wanted...

I called them yesterday afternoon, ordered two rolls of the blue fine-line tape (3mm and 6mm), and it arrived in the post this morning. Great service! I've just done a quick test - it curves well and no bleed-under: exactly as John18d said! So, I should now be able to continue with the bodywork and hopefully have some good results to show you all at the weekend. Many thanks to all involved in pointing me in the right direction.

I know what you mean, Ian - I would be quite happy to leave my models as bare styrene, fibreglass, etc, and not worry about painting them...but I think that I would be in the minority! I felt it was fighting me a bit when I was applying the primer, but I now realise that was more due to the spray can itself, rather than the paint. Once the RAL paints started to go on I've felt much happier, and being able to handle the black-lining has also helped. If the decals work out okay, I will be very relieved!

Progress, progress, progress...

SB

lovegt40

11-22-2011, 02:49 PM

SB, the forum is useful for such tips we all try give to an extreme master modeller as u are.
Never mind, u will fix that line on the body (is an hard part also on real cars, be sure..).

With new tape u surely will fix it great as the rest of the model.We all are sure about it. ;)

keefr22

11-22-2011, 04:14 PM

Tuesday night update:
...I did some digging online on Sunday afternoon and found www.everythingairbrush.com (http://www.everythingairbrush.com), here in the UK. Keef - I believe these were the guys you linked to on e-bay;
SB

I do believe they are SB, & thanks for the link to their shop. They were at the IPMS ScaleModelWorld show in Telford the weekend before last & I bought some stuff from them there, & meant to look for their website when I got home. Dull of me not to make the connection with their e-bay store!

I don't know whether it will ever be of any use to you, but one other thing this tape is very useful for is as a scribing guide - on plastic aeroplane kits for panel lines usually, but if ever you need to scribe plasticard it could be useful. Most plastic kit assemblers use Dymo tape for scribing, but the properties of the 3M tape in the way it will go round compound curves etc often make it more useful in some areas.

Keef

John18d

11-22-2011, 07:03 PM

ScratchBuilt

11-27-2011, 01:55 PM

Hello!

So, the 3M blue fine-line tape arrived and it seemed a shame not to put it to use immediately. Here's the roundel on the nose:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803627.jpg

...and after painting:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803628.jpg

The '12' and the Porsche badge are the result of some work with dad this morning playing around with the scanner and some decal sheets. The badge is scaled-up from a Fujimi 917 kit, and the '12' is the best match we could find in 'Word'! (it's 'Plantaganet Cherokee' in bold, 170pt, for what it's worth). I've got some of the other logos printed up as dummies too, just to get the sizing right - I'll worry about improving the detail later.

The 3M tape also proved to be effective for masking the diamond emblem on the nose - although I had to paint it in two stages:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803629.jpg

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803630.jpg

A little tidying-up with a steady hand and a small brush and it's there, I think.

The other bit of major progress this week has been getting the doors painted. I assembled the tail, bulkhead panels, and nose, added the doors, and after a little more filing and shaping I was happy they were fitting as well as they could. I joined the dots between the orange bands on the nose and tail and masked the doors to suit. Two coats of blue yesterday, a quick rub-down and a third coat of blue this morning, then the orange this afternoon:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803626.jpg

Annoyingly there's a small spot of damage to repair after removing the masking on the larger left-hand door, but this should be simple enough - and I was going to give the doors a final coat of blue after black-lining the orange, anyway.

On the tail section, the three roundels are ready for black-lining - a job for tomorrow night, I think. There's also the green banding to black-line, too. I've re-filled the damage to the edge, so that's ready for when I give the whole tail a final coat of blue - next weekend, hopefully. Then, assuming I can get all the masking tape off without causing any more damage, that should be all the paintwork complete. Well, apart from the decals, varnishing, painting the insides of all the panels grey, etc...

See you next week!

SB

John18d

11-27-2011, 02:55 PM

ianc911

11-28-2011, 12:50 PM

Looking very good. That tape looks well worth it; I'll have to grab some of that myself. Thanks for posting!

ianc

Marc Wilhelmus

11-30-2011, 05:17 AM

Hello Simon, hello all, my name is Marc Wilhelmus, I live in Luxemburg.
Like many of you I have admired Simon's work and if I had to sum up all your comments I would say it doesn't get any better. I was lucky to see these cars race at the old Nürburgring in 1970 and 1971 and since then I have been a fan of these and the Porsche 917 of course which I saw race at Spa in 1970 and 1971.
My reason for writing is that I would like to make a suggestion. As this car was driven by Jo Siffert, I am pretty sure that the green identification colour around the nose grille and on the left side of the rear body work was not dark green, but rather dayglo or fluo green as it was on many of the other works Porsches he drove.
Best wishes,

Marc

soono87

12-02-2011, 12:00 PM

ScratchBuilt

12-04-2011, 11:52 AM

Hello everyone,

Bit of a frustrating week, to be honest. It seemed like every time I had some masking to remove, there would be one spot of damage to be repaired afterwards! One step forwards, two steps backwards...

I decided to black-line the doors and tail arrows before any further re-spraying - this would give me a buffer in case of further damage, and I could always touch it up later by hand, rather than with spray. Here's the doors - you can just see a little damage to the front edges of the orange, and the spot of filler on the blue:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803631.jpg

...and here's the tail - the damage is on the right-hand arrow:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803632.jpg

I black-lined the green area on the tail earlier this week; same story - more damage to repair and the green would need to be re-sprayed too.

Here's one of the doors after the re-spray:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803633.jpg

Fortunately I was able to remove the masking this time without trouble, so both doors are now ready for varnishing and decals. As is the nose:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803634.jpg

The tail section has had the green re-sprayed, but the whole lot still needs a final coat of blue - hopefully that should be the end of it!

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803635.jpg

Hi Marc - you've made me somewhat envious that you saw these cars in period! I've been going to Le Mans since the GT1 period in '96, and I'm sure that in ten or twenty years I'll have the same feelings about the great cars I've seen there - I never saw the Group C cars race in anger, but it's good when they are the support race on the Saturday morning!

Choosing the colours for this one was difficult - I've said before how it was impossible to get a RAL match for the blue and orange. I went through so many photos and references trying to convince myself one way or the other - would that shade be too dark? How would it look over a white undercoat? How accurate is the color chart sample compared to the real thing? I know what you mean about the Siffert green maybe being a brighter or more vibrant shade - I'm not sure that my photos are doing the colour any favours! Hopefully it will look better when I take the finished shots in natural (or brighter) light. However, I feel that the balance of the green, orange and blue, with the black-lined edges, works well as a complete package.

So, as things stand right now I've just got to mask and re-spray the blue on the tail; a little extra touching-up of the black-lining and it's all done. I bought two 400ml cans of spray varnish yesterday, so that's ready for a gloss first coat and a satin top-coat (after the decals). The interior surfaces will get a coat of light grey by hand once the exterior is finished. Period photos suggest the interior surfaces were just left as bare fibreglass, but this is impossible given the amout of overspray, etc, I have to conceal!

For the decals, does anyone have an easy method for printing a Photoshop image with the backrground colour as transparent? I've scanned the 'Porsche' lettering band for the sill panels and been able to change the white text into black, but there's still the original decal sheet colour (pale blue - but not a match for the RAL paint!) in between. If this is turned into a white backrgound, I have the problem that even if I print the image onto clear decal paper, the white will also be printed! Is there a simple way to somehow define the white backround areas as 'transparent' for printing purposes, or maybe create two layers (black and white) then only print the black layer? I'm not really familiar with Photoshop as a package - what we're trying to do might be (a) really easy or (b) impossible...hopefully the answer is somewhere in between!

What else? I finally got my copy of the Hans Mezger autobiography, 'Porsche and Me'. It's obviously less technical than something like the Gordon Wingrove '917 Undercover Story' book, but there are some good photos I've not seen before, and it's a new perspective on what was going on at Porsche during the period. So far I wouldn't rate it an essential purchase for Porsche modellers, but for fans of the marque it's certainly worth a look.

Looking to next year, I see that Porsche is one of the featured marques for the Race Retro Show at Stoneleigh. I'll certainly be going, the question is - should I risk taking the 908 with me? It's got to be a good opportunity, especially if there's a big Porsche display or cars in the auction, or one or two drivers in attendance! Hmm...maybe Brian Redman?

Have a good week!

SB

subbie27x

12-05-2011, 04:11 PM

In Photoshop, that checkered default background is transparent. Even a white background will be transparent. Inkjet and laser printers do not have white ink/toner. If you save a file with a layer of black art, text, whatever, the printer will simply print the black. Only the ALPS printers can print white and they use a different process. Their "ink" is a resinous material on a ribbon.

Let me know if you need more info. Inkjet or laser printers can print on the proper clear decal film. But they will only look opaque on a white or light colored model. I created all the decals for this Audi R8 in Photoshop at 600 dpi.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e311/racer27x/My%20Models/2001%20PLM%20%20Audi%20R8/over_lft_side2.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e311/racer27x/My%20Models/2001%20PLM%20%20Audi%20R8/Audi-Decals.jpg

Scalemodelfanatic

12-05-2011, 04:16 PM

You will probably get the answer for the photoshop solution but why no cutting each letter and apply it individualy, because of tha scale there should be no problem and also there will be less ecxess "carrier film" and the chance of future yellowing. Also you probably know this, but test your clear coat and decal film for possible reaction among the two of them...I had that terrible experience in the past and now test and double test to be on the sure side.

This has been an incredible project from start to finish and the final scale model masterpiece is something out of this world, the work of a true master in all sence of the word.

ScratchBuilt

12-06-2011, 02:08 PM

Thanks guys - the bottom line is, I've got to stop worrying about it and get on and do it! I'm not so concerned about the other logos as they should all print okay on the white paper, but it's only the 'Porsche' text down the sides that doesn't have a background. As we've managed to turn the white lettering into black, and the blue of the original decal sheet into white, maybe we're in with a chance.

I suppose it's possible that playing around in 'Word' might result in a font that can be squeezed and made to look like the Porsche text, and this could produce a better result. The letters are large enough that I could almost consider painting them by hand (after painting the numbers on the rev-counter, anything's possible!), but that still leaves the problem of how to accurately mark them out in the first place.

I think I'll have to primer and top-coat a small scrap of fibreglass at the weekend to be a test-piece for the varnish and decals, or try it on the inside of one of the sill panels where it will never be seen. The annoying thing is that I don't feel like I'm making much progress as I can only spray at the weekends - it's too dark and cold to do it in the evenings now!

Regular post to follow at the weekend, hopefully with positive results...

SB

andy-i

12-07-2011, 03:27 PM

Thanks guys - the bottom line is, I've got to stop worrying about it and get on and do it! I'm not so concerned about the other logos as they should all print okay on the white paper, but it's only the 'Porsche' text down the sides that doesn't have a background. As we've managed to turn the white lettering into black, and the blue of the original decal sheet into white, maybe we're in with a chance.

I suppose it's possible that playing around in 'Word' might result in a font that can be squeezed and made to look like the Porsche text, and this could produce a better result. The letters are large enough that I could almost consider painting them by hand (after painting the numbers on the rev-counter, anything's possible!), but that still leaves the problem of how to accurately mark them out in the first place.

I think I'll have to primer and top-coat a small scrap of fibreglass at the weekend to be a test-piece for the varnish and decals, or try it on the inside of one of the sill panels where it will never be seen. The annoying thing is that I don't feel like I'm making much progress as I can only spray at the weekends - it's too dark and cold to do it in the evenings now!

Regular post to follow at the weekend, hopefully with positive results...

SB

Simon,

If you are printing with a Laser or Inkjet it wont matter that your background is white as the printer will just leave the background blank as it will expect white paper or clear film etc.

Also, in one of your earlier pics your no 12 was black. It should be dark/mid blue.

icon_modeler

12-08-2011, 10:27 AM

Simon, You have some one to compete with in 1/8th scale. Have you seen this build?? Just like yours this looks very nice.

http://www.miniwerks.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=890

ScratchBuilt

12-08-2011, 01:43 PM

Hi Icon,

No, I hadn't seen that 936...but I have now! Wow! I said a while ago that a 936 was on my short-list for 'the next project' - and seeing this I'm sure it would have been a really good build to work through. Mind you, it's a bit different if someone is paying you to do the job, I guess...! His rate of progress certainly appears to be faster than mine, anyway.

Oh well, maybe I'll tackle the 936 in a few years...after fighting with Moby Dick.

While you're here, Icon: race numbers on the 908-03: black or dark blue? The photos of the 008 build certainly appear to have blue numbers, but in every other photo I have of the cars in period they just look black! Your thoughts, please?!

SB

jaykay640

12-08-2011, 04:43 PM

Still a joy to follow this! I can feel your anger with the paint issues. I always seem to have those, but through practice i've become good at fixing them:-)

One question about your decal printing plans: you wrote that you made/changed the Porsche script from a scan in Photoshop. I'm not sure how well that worked out but it sounds like there might be room for improvement. The best thing would be to use the picture as an underlay for a vector graphic that will give you a sharp print.
I understand you can't do that yourself but if you're interested i could do that for you. Shouldn't be too much hassle and your model would deserve it :-)
The same goes for the start number. You mentioned that you found a font in Word that was "close". If you have a picture this could be used to make the exact graphic.
If you're interested let me know :-)

cinqster

12-08-2011, 06:10 PM

SB,

I completely concur with jaykay. A vectorized file is the way to go here. The same offer from me too, but I wouldn't need a font to work with, just a decent image of the Porsche type, (I'm an experienced typographer).

I would create it in Illustrator, as it's my preferred software for such jobs, so you'd have to find a print person that can handle Illustrator files. I would offer you the use of my old Alps printer, but I've not got it up and running properly yet...grrr!

daglesj

12-08-2011, 06:11 PM

cinqster

12-08-2011, 06:39 PM

For crying out loud if you have an issue with typography/fonts/photoshop/Illustrator/modification then speak to Amanda. Dear oh dear.

Get to bed...now!:evillol:

icon_modeler

12-08-2011, 09:00 PM

Icon: race numbers on the 908-03: black or dark blue? The photos of the 008 build certainly appear to have blue numbers, but in every other photo I have of the cars in period they just look black! Your thoughts, please?!

SB

Blue, absolutly Blue. In fact none of the factory cars that ran in the TF in 1970 had black numbers. We generally do everything in our power to duplicate the paint as it was back in the day. You can see from the pictures below we didn't do too bad :grinyes:

Good luck, your getting so close :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt97/dtcollins/1970%20TF%20Winning%20908-3/908-312Siffert-RedmanTF70y01.jpg

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt97/dtcollins/1970%20TF%20Winning%20908-3/111_908-3_no12_seinfeld_front-1.jpg

http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt97/dtcollins/1970%20TF%20Winning%20908-3/0019.jpg

ianc911

12-09-2011, 12:08 PM

What is the thing with the different colored surrounds around the front oil cooler inlet? For recognition? Is there a green for Siffert and orange for Elford? Was this a Gulf\Wyer thing only?

ianc

icon_modeler

12-09-2011, 12:51 PM

What is the thing with the different colored surrounds around the front oil cooler inlet? For recognition? Is there a green for Siffert and orange for Elford? Was this a Gulf\Wyer thing only?

ianc

Yes, It was so that they could easily tell the cars apart on the track. They also painted the left rear fender over the tire the same color chosen for the oil cooler surround. I guess the different types of arrows where not enough difference in the cars livery. They would have a hell of a time with todays team cars then wouldn't they??:icon16::icon16:

ScratchBuilt

12-11-2011, 01:50 PM

Hello again,

Firstly, my thanks to JayKay, Cinqster and Icon-Modeler for your recent contributions - both the offers of help, and the 'No 12' photos - much appreciated. I still really want to try to get this whole decal business sorted out 'in-house', so to speak, but I'll let you know when I admit defeat! Funnily enough, that almost happened earlier today...

My plan for this weekend was to get the final spraying done on the tail section, to spray a couple of fibreglass test pieces, and to finally print some decals and see how they reacted with the spray varnishes. If everything went to plan, it would be a big step forward.

During the week I was emailed a selection of Porsche fonts by Rijk - many thanks! Dad and I played around with one of these to get the 'Porsche' text for the sill panels, and we printed the first decals - a couple to use on the test pieces, and spares to (hopefully) use on the model:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803636.jpg

These were printed on a Canon MG5250 inkjet, using 'Experts Choice' clear decal paper. We also re-printed some test '12's in a couple of different shades of blue - I'm happy to go with Icon on this one!

So, I'm all ready to apply the first decals I've used in maybe 14 years onto the test pieces...I dip the first one into a plate of lukewarm water...and the ink promptly starts to swirl away! In the three years of the this project, this has been about the lowest point - a proper 'head in hands' moment! All the planning and preparation, all the waiting and dithering, and it swirls away into the water...I was so cheesed-off I didn't even think to take any photos of the disaster.

Deep breath, swear and curse, then take stock. I've now got some 'Decal Film' fluid on order which I'm hoping will seal the ink to the paper, before the soak. If this works, we're still in business. I still had some small offcuts of the clear decal paper to hand, so I applied one piece to each of the sprayed samples - these have been drying all afternoon, and I'll add a top-coat of spray varnish to each during the week: if it reacts with the decals, it's back to the start.

However, let's move on to some of the positives. The tail section re-spray is now complete:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803641.jpg

Some of the black-lining needs touching-up, but I can do that by hand without having to re-mask anything. If the varnish tests work, I can spray all the panels in preparation for the (eventual) decals!

I've also started brush-painting the inside of the panels - here's the nose with all the overspray:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803639.jpg

...and with a coat of 'Codex Grey':

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803640.jpg

Still some tidying-up required around the edges, but you get the idea.

The base of the windscreen has been blacked-out (on the inside), and will be pinned to the bodywork after all the varnishing is complete:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803637.jpg

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803638.jpg

I have a nasty feeling that the black band is too thick, although it won't be a problem to make another screen if I can't convince myself it's okay! I'll have to wait until I'm ready to fit it, then make a decision.

While I was re-spraying the tail, I gave the inlet covers a final coat of the RAL orange over the Tamiya - and it didn't go chalky. They now match the stripes on the bodywork:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803642.jpg

I'm now base-coating the mesh areas in black before drybrushing - this will continue through the week. All I have to do then is work out how to make some removeable straps...

That's it for tonight; until the decal film arrives I can't do much more on the bodywork exterior, so I'll concentrate on the interior and some of the detailing - I have to finish the tail-latches and supports too, for example.

All the best,

SB

daglesj

12-11-2011, 05:48 PM

icon_modeler

12-12-2011, 12:22 AM

How long did you give it between printing the decals and putting them in water?

Doesn't matter, the inkjet ink needs to be top coated with something to bond it all together. I've used clear Testers paint before with good luck but that was yeas ago. The Decal Film, Fluid sounds like a better bet. That should do the trick nicely.

Just so that you know SB. Making you own decals is somewhat an art. If you got it right straight out of the gate we would all think you are super human and that would just be a little much for some of us to take with all the other talents you seem to possess :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

You'll get it though, I'm sure of that!!!

ScratchBuilt

12-18-2011, 01:20 PM

...It was just one of those things - I printed the text, left it to dry for ten minutes or so as it was prone to smudging, then tried to apply them to the test pieces. Didn't give it a second thought that the ink might not like being dunked in water so soon...!

Anyway, I ordered a bottle of Liquid Decal Film from Hobby's in London and it arrived yesterday morning. Brushed a thin coat onto the remaining pieces of 'Porsche' text left over from last weekend - so far so good, it didn't affect the ink. Next step - into the water, then onto the fibreglass samples:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803643.jpg

Result! The only question now was whether the second layer of varnish might react with the decal film - I sprayed the samples this morning and nothing has happened yet. So, I think I'm in business for the first stage - adding the text to the sill panels, and adding the number '12's. Following Cinqster and JayKay's advice I spent some time googling for vector images of some of the logos - found a couple of good 'Gulf' logos, Porsche shields, and a Union Flag. I haven't found the 'Bosch' logo for the tail panel yet, so that still might have to be tidied-up from the scanned decal. As you can imagine, my mood is somewhat improved compared to last weekend...

Knowing that the Porsche text for the sills was within reach, I decided to add the black banding. The blue masking tape came in useful once again, and here's the result:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803644.jpg

...and with the text:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803645.jpg

Don't worry - it's clear decal film! So, that's the sill panels pretty much finished and ready for some spray varnish.

I've also been spending some time this week continuing with painting the mesh sections of the inlet cover. Black, then a drybrush of Boltgun Metal, then a thin inky wash of black to tone it down a bit and fill in any holes:

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803646.jpg

Finally, here's the door latches from several weeks ago - it's ridiculous how something so small could cause so much frustration! They'll both be glued into the doors sometime soon, and that'll be that.

http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt121/ScratchBuilt917/90803647.jpg

Plans for this week? Well, I think I'm ready to spray the first coat of varnish, but this might have to wait until Thursday or Friday (depending on when I finish work). Once that's done I can add the 12's and sill text. Meanwhile, I'll sort out the vector logos and print those on the decal paper too. On the basis that modelling on Christmas day will be frowned-upon by the folks, the next update post will probably be early in the week! I don't expect to have all the decals applied by then, but the process should be well underway.

Have a good week, everyone!

SB

subbie27x

12-18-2011, 02:16 PM

cinqster

12-18-2011, 02:29 PM

Looking great SB!

Bit late in the day, but I found this font today. Not of much use now that you're there already, but may help other builders:

http://www.dafont.com/transport.font

:cool:

lovegt40

12-18-2011, 04:15 PM

To avoid such problem is enough to cover the printed decal with a medium /heavy coat of TS-13 or any other enamel not water sluble trasparent varnish.I use bare metal film with ordinary ts-13.It always works fine.First light passages and then heavy ones.

Btw and just as "intermezzo" a friend of mine from Monza is building this 936 in 1/8 full scratch as your one :) sry but dont have more pics for now :)

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/6393/936a.jpg

djblancett

12-18-2011, 10:06 PM

nipponts

12-20-2011, 09:43 AM